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The Yellow Ribbons

Fredericton Peace Coalition Position Statement on Yellow Ribbons “…we will be asking local businesses and churches to reconsider what displaying a yellow ribbon really means. For those wanting to show their support for the troops, but not the war, we will be offering another image that states “bring them home.”

Comments

Comment from joe
Time October 4, 2007 at 5:55 pm

this is the most outragous load of @*&# i have ever read, grow up and learn about your country and the world! I guess ignorance is abound in your coalition!

Comment from jammie
Time October 4, 2007 at 7:16 pm

WOW, when i heard about this site and topic i thought it was a joke but to actually see that it exists is amazing. It’s hard for me to fathom that in this day and age there are people out there that have so very misguided views. It is obvious to me that the people behind the anti yellow ribbons are shallow uneducated people. They have to be to have this view! You live in a country that prides itself on freedom of speech and opportunity, but don’t you dare for a second think that this is a right you have earned, it was given and is maintained by the blood, sweat and tears of those very men and women that you insult by the very idea of opposition. It is the sword and not the pen that has kept and will continue to keep our way of life. As for the current mission, get your facts straight! As someone who has followed the Afghan mission since the beggining I have never read a more unfactual and ignorant position on the mission as yours. I cannot even begin to point out all of the false statements and gross exagerations just to try to push your “peace” agenda. I agree with joe, grow up and move out of your parents basement! We all owe those brave men and women our complete support as well as our support to a just mission that has seen the overthrough of an evil government and continues to fight those who would rule with malicious intent over people that can’t fight for themselves and would live under such rule in conditions we in the west would call barbaric and unhumanitarian. Isn’t that worth fighting for? Isn’t that a cause worthy of your efforts? And don’t forget for a second that if we were to pull out we would eventually end up fighting them here on our own soil. I urge you to educate yourselves! But in the end I am certainly glad that people with your views and ideas are a very, very tiny minority within our society.

Comment from Wayne
Time October 5, 2007 at 4:53 pm

Wake UP!! 19 and 20 Oct the warmongers and their war crimicals that carried out the war crimes are to speak at the WOO

Comment from Paul
Time October 10, 2007 at 8:10 pm

From a Canadian soldier, you are welcome!!! You’re welcome for the time we spend away from family and friends. You are welcome for the lives lost to keep our great country safe. You are welcome for the right you have to speak freely to voice your opinions, even when your interpretation of the facts appear to be one sided. My friends and family proudly display their ribbons to show their love and support for myself and my fellow soldiers fighting this war. Although not everyone may agree with the war, we are there and Canadians are showing their support to us as individuals, fighting for them, their rights and their country.

1. The red Friday’s campaign was started by two wives that are from C.F.B. Petawawa, NOT the government.

2. The yellow ribbon campain was started by a civilian and not the government, and yes the canex sells these products.

Did you know that the proceeds go back to the Military Resource Centres that support the men and women of the armed forces, and their families.

Wal-Mart also sells the yellow ribbons, it is not just the government trying to get the message out to support our troops.

The royal canadian legion has a version of the ribbon but in legion colors.

There are also ribbons for Prayer for our troops.

So let me say it again, You are welcome! We are fortunate to live in a country that allows each of us to have views and opinions. In some countries in the world you would be arrested, locked up and possibly even killed for voicing them. Be thankful you live in CANADA! And yes I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS and will continue to so with the pride of a true Canadian! You have a right to your opinion, as I do mine, however you should not have the right to force people to remove these ribbons if they so chose to be proud Canadians and support the brave men and women who bravely go to war so our children can be free.

Comment from Peter
Time October 14, 2007 at 8:58 pm

Please let us know what businesses you boycott so we can support them even more for their stand against dingbats like yourself.
And also let us know the source of funding for this, this, whatever in the world this idiot organization is, because it there is any of my tax dollars wasted here, my MP, MLA will get a blast!

Comment from Sailor
Time October 20, 2007 at 11:18 am

What about the troops elsewhere in the world, should they all be brought home. The yellow ribbon isn’t just for Afghan. It will most likely be around long after the mission is over. If you are going to protest this mission do it in another way.

Comment from Sheldon
Time October 26, 2007 at 12:57 pm

I can’t believe how you guys can sleep at night knowing that you’ve turned your backs on the soldiers who are overseas fighting for all of us including yourselves. You people should realize that we don’t display the ribbons in support for the war but rather for our troops. That’s why it says support our troops on them not support the war. I’ll bet that if you had any close family or friends over there fighting you’d have a whole different look on it, but maybe your so stone cold that it wouldn’t bother you a bit. I’m going to continue to display the yellow ribbon and encourage more people to do the same.

Comment from Andrew
Time October 31, 2007 at 3:19 pm

When did we become the Americans? When did we support the war no matter what the circumstances?

I understand that fact that we have an army and that army is used primairly for peacekeeping

@Paul – Can you refresh my memory? When did we have a DRAFT? You made a CHOICE to join the army, it is your JOB. Get off the soapbox and stop playing the martyr. It is NOT my DUTY as a Canadian to support EVERYTHING the army does.

Comment from Andrew
Time October 31, 2007 at 3:21 pm

– sorry, it didnt post the full thing.

When did we become the Americans? When did we support the war no matter what the circumstances?

I understand that fact that we have an army and that army is used primairly for peacekeeping but doing cleanup for the Americans is not something I support. They were in there roughly what, three weeks before leaving? How many years are we going to be in there? How many Canadians are going to die for this? We don’t want the Canadians there and we’re the bad guys…

I don’t agree with the yellow ribbions becuase I don’t support the war, never have. And just because we are involved now does NOT change my opinion.

@Paul – Can you refresh my memory? When did we have a DRAFT? You made a CHOICE to join the army, it is your JOB. Get off the soapbox and stop playing the martyr. It is NOT my DUTY as a Canadian to support EVERYTHING the army does.

Comment from jeff
Time October 31, 2007 at 6:16 pm

I would like to personally thank Tracy Glynn for having the courage to speak honestly to the press. It is very disappointing to see the ignorance displayed by the Mayor and some of the public conerning this issue.
It is not surprising that those who support the yellow ribbon were the same indiviuals that left threatening messages on various forums concerning this issue.

To those who think that the yellow ribbon is symbolic solely for supporting our troops, fail to see the forest for the trees. Even the Americans are starting to understand that the war on terror is a false flag war. It is a shame that they have had most of their freedoms taken away before this could be realized.

Many of you seem to be soo sacred that you openly
accept the information that is fed to you by those with invested interest rather than thinking for yourself. Perhaps I should wear a ribbon to promote history because after reading most of these comments it is a subject largely forgotten.

My solidarity lies on the side of peace and prosperity and those organizations or people who aren’t afraid of the truth rather than the total destruction caused by war, whether for profit or not.

Comment from Jeff T
Time October 31, 2007 at 10:21 pm

I would personally like to thank the members of this myopic and BS fed organisation for being so poorly researched, and loudly ignorant on a such simple subjects with so much information available.

“Many of you seem to be soo sacred that you openly
accept the information that is fed to you by those with invested interest rather than thinking for yourself. Perhaps I should wear a ribbon to promote history because after reading most of these comments it is a subject largely forgotten.”

You are right, history has been greatly forgotten. By people like you most of all. As someone who has been to Afghanistan, I can assure you that you have no facts that hold up to reality.

On the subject of the yellow ribbons, it is a sign of support towards the HUMAN BEINGS that are in the army. NOT the army. NOT the mission. NOT killing. NOT war. The support that most human beings require to stay human, and unless you have actually been away from your family, and all the usual support mechanisms one has at home here in Canada, you could not possibly imagine how important something as a little yellow ribbon is to me.

Your campaign is frankly hateful, and a slap in the face to soldiers, sailors and airmen everywhere. The fact that scorn is heaped on you should have been the first hint. But then, people who are as prejudiced as you “fine” folks are, don;t let little things like facts get in your way.

Comment from Nick
Time October 31, 2007 at 11:22 pm

Alright Jeff.. the forum is yours..
Share all of your thoughts with us from your time in Afghanistan. I would honestly like to hear them. But I want to hear your thoughts and facts — in full detail — not your rant.

The forum is yours.

Comment from Nick
Time November 1, 2007 at 12:17 pm

Here are some facts coming out of Afghanistan, from a variety of news sources, posted on the RAWA website

Afghan Women [still] Forced to Live in Terror
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2007/10/17/afghan-women-forced-to-live-in-terror.html

Bleak Prospects Face Millions of Refugees on Return to Afghanistan
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2007/10/18/bleak-prospects-face-millions-of-refugees-on-return-to-afghanistan.html

Afghan Children on the Brink of Catastrophe: UNIEF
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2007/10/26/afghan-children-on-the-brink-of-catastrophe-unicef.html

US Congressional Panel Was Warned: “Afghanistan May Be Lost Forever”
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2007/10/05/us-congressional-panel-was-warned-afghanistan-may-be-lost-forever.html

Kunar Residents Want Withdrawl of Foreign Troops
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2007/10/06/kunar-residents-want-withdrawal-of-foreign-troops.html

Red Cross: Humanitarian Situation Getting Worse in Afghanistan
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2007/09/13/red-cross-humanitarian-situation-getting-worse-in-afghanistan.html

…There Are Things Worse Than the Taliban
http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2007/09/13/for-residents-of-the-northern-province-of-takhar-there-are-worse-things-than-the-taliban.html

Comment from Dan
Time November 1, 2007 at 7:03 pm

140 Taliban poking around heaven looking for their 40 virgins as of today 1 November 2007 and the rest on the run to their masters in Iran….and thats a fact. Of course they left behind some interesting facts on their occupation of villages in the the SOuth West of the ‘Stan. 3 women advocates raped, beaten and clubbed to death, the medical clinic set up by an relief organization destroyed, anyone with education was considered a “government spy” and murdered. These are the Taliban that you and your NDP masters so want to make treaties with!

Comment from Dan C
Time November 4, 2007 at 1:58 pm

Okay, here are some more “facts coming out of Afghanistan, from a variety of news sources”

Afghan child mortality drops by 25 per cent: ministry
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=55064752-d8cb-45dc-8af6-abe4021e6fb4&k=21651

Environics Poll of Afghans Opinions
http://erg.environics.net/media_room/default.asp?aID=653

The Yellow ribbon is not symbolic of the Afghan or Iraq War. It is a symbol to tell our sons and daughters in Uniform that we care about them.

Oh and lets not forget that the Afghan War is a United Nations Sanctioned Action. The Iraq War is not and is probably more about Oil than anything else.

Comment from tracy
Time November 4, 2007 at 2:13 pm

There are plans for oil and gas pipelines cutting through Afghanistan backed by Canadian, British and American imperial interests. For example, the Trans-Afghan Pipeline — In 2002, an agreement was signed in the Turkmen capital, Ashgabat, for construction of a 1500-km natural gas pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2608713.stm

Jean Chretien is involved with many companies with interests in Afghanistan. Chretien has acted as an advisor to Bennett Jones, a Calgary-based law firm specializing in energy issues, counsel in another law firm Heenan Blaikie, and as an international relations advisor to PetroKazakhstan Inc., an energy firm based in Calgary with major interests in Kazakhstan and Caspian.

On September 3, 2004, a meeting was held in Ashgabat, Turkmenistan to discuss foreign participation, including Canada’s, in oil and gas projects in Turkmenistan. “A joint Omani-Canadian delegation including Yusuf bin Alavi, foreign minister of Oman and Jean Chretien, former prime minister of Canada, called on Niyazov to discuss cooperation in the energy and hydrocarbon sectors. … [The Trans-Afghan Pipeline] would transport Turkmen natural gas to Pakistan through Afghanistan.”
http://www.newscentralasia.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=876

A map showing the route of the proposed UNOCAL oil pipeline reveals a similar route to the roads now being built by Canadian soldiers. – Scroll to the bottom for the map:
http://operationobjection.org/war-free-schools/index.html .

More at:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=MED20060318&articleId=2125

Comment from Andrew
Time November 8, 2007 at 11:40 am

When I was a kid, veterans of the second world war would come to my school and speak on the horrors of war.

They would say things such as “Never Again” and “Lest we forget”. They would always play a song that I’ve since forgotten all of, save one line, “Never again take arms against our brothers(sisters)”

When I think of the war in Afghanistan, I think back to the expressions on these veterans faces as they recounted their experiences, and their warnings for the future.

I do not support any part of this war, and it’s because of these men and women.

Comment from Jeff T
Time November 25, 2007 at 11:40 pm

Nick, I shared my thoughts, and yet, you still choose to wallow in contempt and self induced ignorance. Morons like you get far more people killed then I could ever do with my rifle and bullets. Further, your utter ignorance and contempt, for soldiers, as amply demonstrated in your ignorant meanderings here does nothing to reinforce the strict moral code we possess, and instead damages it…

You have no idea what it means to support the troops, your politicization of this symbols of this shows the utter contempt you and your inbred kin have for folks like me. So, excuse my, if I fail to bow down and respect you and the “fine” people of the FPC. I beleive you all to be a thoroughly contemptible lot.

Comment from Nick
Time November 27, 2007 at 2:04 am

My previous post to JeffT

Alright Jeff.. the forum is yours..
Share all of your thoughts with us from your time in Afghanistan. I would honestly like to hear them. But I want to hear your thoughts and facts — in full detail — not your rant.

The forum is yours.

You’ve still shared nothing other than your ignorance and insults.

Comment from Nick
Time November 27, 2007 at 10:15 am

And secondly Jeff.. give us some examples of when negotiation, development, education, and pacifism have lead to more deaths than war?

Comment from Mike
Time November 28, 2007 at 6:48 pm

I have to say, I’m a bit disappointed by the reaction I’ve been seeing to the war in Afghanistan lately. Thanks to the US’s dedication to also randomly invade Iraq, people seem to have lumped the two campaigns together.

This is a real shame – Afghanistan really did need dealing with, and now the Brits and Canadians who were intending to assist have been left holding the bag while the Americans get bogged down in Iraq.

Do I feel the troops should come home? Well, quite frankly, Afghanistan is a mess, and we’ve helped make it that mess. Walking away doesn’t really seem like an option in the real world. While they’re there, I have to say I really struggle to understand what is wrong with displaying yellow ribbons. The soldiers over there are trying to improve things for the Afghanis – what’s not to support?

Comment from Jeff T
Time December 2, 2007 at 1:15 pm

Given the demonstrated lack of reading comprehension skills you and others like you have shown here Nick, why would I waste my time? I could go into a very detailed essay on the effects of the “Mogadishu Effect”, and the impact it had on the then President of the US of A. Part of said essay would include the successful protests against intervention in Somalia (which I might add has since lead to 10′s of thousands of needless violent deaths and tens of thousands more from starvation).

The “Mogadishu Effect” is credited with convincing Clinton to vetoe a more robust military action in Rawanda, and in fact lead to heavy restrictions being placed on the soldiers on the ground there.

100′s of thousands died in Rawanda, and that did not have to happen.

QUOTE: And secondly Jeff.. give us some examples of when negotiation, development, education, and pacifism have lead to more deaths than war? END QUOTE

Pacifism, my my, you are an ignorant child. Try your pacifist approach next time a dog is attacking a child. Let me know how it works out for you. Pacifism would work in a perfect world, and yet, here we are in reality in a far from perfect world. Grow up child.

Education, negotiation, redevelopment are all things that we are activly engaged in in Afghanistan… Please, do let the cold hard facts get you down… Perhaps if you would “google” once in a while, you would not be such the ignorant.

Comment from Erik
Time December 13, 2007 at 6:17 pm

I’m confused why the “new” thread on the yellow ribbon campaign ends on December 2, 2007, while the “old” one runs through December 13, 2007, including my comments on December 9th. Did you feel you were losing your argument?

Comment from Jeff T
Time December 14, 2007 at 5:35 pm

I thought I would bring this para to the front again, since Nick and others prefer not to see it. The whole “anti-Yellow Ribbon” campaign is not about supporting peace, but rather about dehumanizing soldiers. Polarize the people against the soldiers, or at least, drive their memories out of the public mind, to further their own politically myopic agendas forward.

QUOTE:
On the subject of the yellow ribbons, it is a sign of support towards the HUMAN BEINGS that are in the army. NOT the army. NOT the mission. NOT killing. NOT war. The support that most human beings require to stay human, and unless you have actually been away from your family, and all the usual support mechanisms one has at home here in Canada, you could not possibly imagine how important something as a little yellow ribbon is to me.

END QUOTE

Comment from Julian Christie
Time December 16, 2007 at 2:08 pm

Just a note to all supporters of our troops out there…
Yellow ribbon pins can usually be found at the store in Gagetown. I had trouble tracking one down until my friend in the forces picked one up for me.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time December 16, 2007 at 2:11 pm

I am curious about the change of location for the blog here. I had trouble finding it, though I admit I am not the most computer savvy person around. Were there tech problems with posts not coming through? It happened to me once or twice, so that could be it? Not sure.

Comment from Nick
Time December 16, 2007 at 10:34 pm

I’m not the moderator, but from what I’ve been told, they are trying to limit the amount of space used on the site for this debate. As it was, it had been active on three different pages: this one, the about page, and the contact page. The latter of which had been the busiest. The debate on the about page had been inactive for a little while.

I had the same problems with posting as well. I think it was a spam guard. Whenever I posted links, my submissions got blocked.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time December 17, 2007 at 9:07 am

Ahhh. I see. I kind of figured that was it.

Comment from Nick
Time December 17, 2007 at 10:43 am

Australian defense chief warns allies over Afghanistan war

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/12/17/australia.afghanistan/index.html

Comment from Dan C
Time December 19, 2007 at 3:07 pm

Alex,

I can understand that you would think that a Government Website would be Biased. The rest of us would tend to believe that the Official Opposition would have their Watchdogs sniffing for lies on these sites to get ammo for the next election.

You can’t however claim that RAWA isn’t biased either. I just tried reading several pages on RAWA and I feel like I’m reading a Propaganda Sheet typical of the old TASS News Agency. Phrases like “The US and her Fundamentalist Stooges” – “the filthy shackles of the fundamentalists and their foreign masters” – “RAWA was marked for annihilation by the Soviets and their cronies” ,
and they are asking for Donations too. Those phrases don’t sound like debate or facts to me they sound like Rhetoric. The general impression I get from reading RAWA is that it is an activist Political Party. The NGO’s won’t deal with them because they are activists. I’d have to say that RAWA would achieve more by sending volunteers to work for the NGO’s who are already working for and achieving goals for Womens Rights.

Lets also not forget first that Afghanistan was destroyed completely. Not even basic sewer systems, electricity, phones in the cities – NOTHING! Secondly the country is predominantly Muslim. We are not in Afghanistan to tell Muslims how to live. We are there to help them stay alive and improve their quality of life. The Womens rights movement needs help yes no doubt there but that is work for the NGO’s not the Army. Third, when a country is destroyed to this extent, any help, any effort, any contribution is an improvement. You wouldn’t know that because you, like millions of other Canadians, live here spoiled rotten in rich Canada. You have never experienced famine and destructon. Fighting for the Quality of Life for Afghanistan is a noble and worthy cause for our Sons and Daughters. It will set the stage for other improvements like the Womens movement and the election of a newer and more diverse Government that is not dominated by the Northern Alliance. The ablilty of the Afghani people to decide their own fate. The fact is though they first need food, roads, Police, Firemen, Doctors, Hospitals, Schools, Power Lines, Phone Lines, and an economy with Stores and jobs. Things we take for granted.

I am interested in hearing what you might have to say about the video of Farida Nekzad. Who would you rather believe a Politician trying to get elected (Joya) or a free Journalist (Nekzad)? Tough question…

I have one other question Alex…

If – just for the sake of discussion – you were suddenly made a World Leader, how would you see the Afghanistan situation get resolved?

Comment from Dan
Time December 20, 2007 at 3:39 pm

Lets repaet all those facts that got “buried” when the old forum on this subject was closed:

Alex, it is clear you could not be bothered to even look at the pages… If you did, you would have found this in about 2 clicks:

4.6 million Refugees have returned to Afghanistan
14,000 community district councils have been elected
Per capita income has doubled.
The Afghan economy has tripled
Two national elections have been held (Parliamentary and Presidential)
More than 10 million Afghans voted
200,000 Afghans (90 percent women) have received Micro-finance business loans
7.2 million Children vaccinated against polio; 4.3 million vaccinated against childhood diseases
4 million women vaccinated against Tetanus
77 percent of Afghans have access to medical facilities – compared to less than 10 percent in 2001.
4,000 new medical facilities opened
Six million children (one third girls) now go to school compared to 700,000 (no girls) in 2001.
363,000 teachers provided with teaching material
8,000 km of new and refurbished roads have been completed
2,500 villages have electricity for the first time
8,000 construction projects have been completed; 14,000 more are underway.
4,000 houses and shelters constructed for the needy
130 Agriculture projects (benefiting 300,000 farmers) actioned
60,000 soldiers disarmed and demobilized
190,000 mines defused and removed
8,100 new water points, 8,000 latrine blocks (benefiting 3 million people)
1,700 water reservoirs built
Hygiene education to 3.4 million people
13 million days of community employment

I know reality sucks but the above is real!

Comment from Tracy
Time December 20, 2007 at 4:49 pm

A recent study bythe Centre for Strategic and International Studies on the air war in Iraq and Afghanistan from 2004-07
http://www.csis.org/media/csis/pubs/071213_oif-oef_airpower.pdf
reveals how the war is being waged in Afghanistan with air strikes that peaked in August 2007. In 2007, nearly *3000* close air support strikes were made – nearly triple the amount made in Iraq this year, and nearly double the number of strikes in Afghanistan last year.

UNICEF and other sources say:

- 60% of children have lost at least one member of their family or close relatives
- Over 600,000 children sleep on the streets.
- For every 50,000 there is only one physician
- 100,000 children are disabled
- 60,000 children in Afghanistan are addicted to drugs
- Over 37,000 children work and beg in the streets of Kabul alone
- There are about 8,000 former child soldiers
- An estimated one million are child labourers in Afghanistan.

Canada should be helping the children who have been the prime victims of the three decades of unprecedented wars and brutalities. They need help dealing with the trauma of homelessness, hunger, disability, and abuse.

Comment from Jeff T
Time December 20, 2007 at 6:44 pm

You are absolutly right Tracy… Canada should, and IS helping children in Afghanistan.

Oh, did you know that there are now over 6 million children in school*? In 2001, that number was just under 700 thousand. Of the 6 million in school now, nearly a third of them are girls. In 2001, zero of 700,000 were girls.

Would you not agree that schooling is a step in the right direction?

* http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/CIDAWEB/acdicida.nsf/En/FRA-321102557-JXB

Comment from Alex Corey
Time December 20, 2007 at 8:33 pm

To Dan: No I don’t have faith that the opposition would be challenging the statistics of the operation– it is the official opposition that put us there in the first place. I have no faith in the Liberals. The NDP wants us out, so they, are challenging the supposed “benefits” of the mission. As for the rest of your post I’m not wasting any more of my time arguing with people who I’m clearly not going to influence. Your post is racist as you claim that you are trying to help stay alive and improve their quality of life as if it is their religion and culture that is the source of the horrid conditions of their country right now. Fundamentalism is fostered by unstable conditions, poverty and war—these are facts of political economy. Your analysis fails to accept that bringing war into an area does not help the people there, society will only be changed through peaceful means and education. The dire situation in Afghanistan started because of imperialism and continues to worsen due to imperialism (a foreign power meddling in their affairs for some personal gain).

The economy tripling and per capita income doubling– these have little to say about the conditions for regular people in Afghanistan since per capita income is an average over the whole population and if one guy got all of the money invested in the country, or if each person received an equal share we would see the same number. This is also connected to the rise in opium production that rebounded after the Taliban had almost eradicated it. Of course the economy tripled– there is a sudden influx of foreign troops and foreign capital and the size of the economy is a measure of the amount of capital flowing through Afghanistan, so this too is a useless indicator as it has nothing to do with where the money is going and who benefits.

Reuters Nov 20, 2007:
“Too much aid to Afghanistan is wasted — soaked up in contractors’ profits, spent on expensive expatriate consultants or squandered on small-scale, quick-fix projects, a leading British charity said on Tuesday.”

Despite more than $15 billion of aid pumped into Afghanistan since U.S.-led and Afghan forces toppled the Taliban in 2001, many Afghans still suffer levels of poverty rarely seen outside sub-Saharan Africa.
From BBC December 3, 2007
“”How can the private sector work when contracts are going from donors back to international companies. They are not trusting Afghan companies.”

Ottawa Citizen Nov 19, 2007.
“an analysis by CanWest News Service suggests that more than $1.1 million in business has been awarded to an Afghan company that bears the same name as one of Kandahar’s most infamous warlords.”

Two national elections have been held—yes and the Northern alliance make up most of the government.

77 percent of Aghans have access to medical facilities–

From Ottawa Citizen, Nov 19, 2007:

“Polls records better schools and health care, but these improvements did not lift the gloom caused by wider concerns.
About a third of the population had a direct experience of violence in their area, and the same figure knew of civilians killed by the international forces – not far behind the number who knew of civilians killed by Taleban and foreign jihadis.”

Not to mention, statistics in isolation say nothing– they need to be given context. Stats used in context can provide weight to an argument, when they are manipulated to hide the truth of the situation (as the stats coming from CIDA are) they are used to justify the activity of Canada in Afghanistan that is reprehensible. Kids are going to school and that in itself is fantastic… 237 schoolchildren have been in the last three years (BBC Dec 3, 2007), so using a military to help them get to school increases the violence in the area making the kids more likely to be killed on the way to school. Get kids to school and the Canadian Military out of Afghanistan.

Comment from Jeff T
Time December 20, 2007 at 9:42 pm

Alex, you still do not disprove the stats and facts presented… Instead you embarrass yourself in word games, and a complete and utter lack of understanding of the situation in Afghanistan.

Comment from Dan C
Time December 20, 2007 at 9:43 pm

Alex,

I quote you here..
“Your post is racist as you claim that you are trying to help stay alive and improve their quality of life as if it is their religion and culture that is the source of the horrid conditions of their country right now. ”

I believe I clearly stated in my second last post it was War that did this… no mention of their customs at all… “Afghanistan has been blasted into the Stone Age over the last 30 Years.” Further I stated in my last post that “We are not in Afghanistan to tell Muslims how to live.”

I’m hardly Racist and I take great offence to your comment. I’m proud to have many friends from a wide cultural background and even one of them is Muslim. I personally sponsor two children with World Vision. A little girl named Iris in Guatemala (Christian) and a boy named Sudan in Sri Lanka (Tamil).

I think you owe me an apology.

My firm belief is that Canada is a rich Nation and we have the Moral Responsibility to assist “Have Not” Nations – regardless of their skin colour or religion. To do otherwise is to be irresponsible.

If we have to go in with the Army first to calm the place down for the NGO’s then that’s what we have to do. In this case don’t forget that we went in after the Al Qaida camps that trained the 9 11 murderers. More were on the way but we stopped them.

Finally you have not answered either of my Questions – which I posed for discussion. Never mind. This Thread is supposed to be about Yellow Ribbons anyway.

Comment from Alex Corey
Time January 2, 2008 at 2:40 pm

“Moral responsibility to assist” aka “duty to protect” aka “white man’s burden”–an inherently racist paradigm characterized by the belief that by sending in the military we can help out the “have-not” countries, completely ignoring that our richness and their poverty are not independent phenomena– “our” wealth stems from colonization and neo-colonialism; stealing resources and labour to enrich the elite while laying literally trillions of dollars of debt on the majority world nations (aka periphery aka have-nots)– who have in-fact repaid their debt three times, but because of crushing interest remain trillions in debt. Atlantic Canadians can understand what that is like, I’m sure.

While the “responsibility to protect” uses rhetoric of moral necessity to justify intervention in “failed states”– it involves a great deal of sacrifice by the individuals in the military there are a few elite who benefit enormously at the expense of all those affected by the “humanitarian wars”.

Canada isn’t a rich nation as a whole. There were great social securities for a period, but in the era of globalization those have been rolled back and 1/4 of all wage earners in Atlantic Canada work below the low-income poverty cut off (LICO), meaning that they are unable to meet the basic calculated needs including rent, food, electricity and excluding many things such as child-care, vehicles, health expenses and unexpected expenses. (Stats from Workman, T. Social Torment: Globalization in Atlantic Canada. Zed Books. 2003.). Is there a correlation between poverty in Atlantic Canada and our disproportionate representation in the military and in those killed in the occupation.

For who is benefiting financially from this war check out the articles just posted on the trans-afghan pipeline that is coming to fruition.

Comment from Jeff T
Time January 3, 2008 at 12:59 pm

Yes, and one of the groups that would benifit from any such pipeline would be Afghanistan. Tell me, how is it a bad thing that Afghanistan stands to make hundreds of millions of dollars, and gain access to a resource they desperatly need

How do you think a government moves forward with helping it’s people? You think money is grown on trees?

I noticed you failed utterly to answer questions put to you Alex… Further you failed to retract a slanderous comment directed at Dan. Speaks a lot to your character.

Comment from Erik
Time January 4, 2008 at 5:54 pm

Is it a coincidence that only after this fourm has been inactive for over two weeks, Alex decides to spout some rhetoric. I think not. Losing your lime light a little? People not giving your organization any attention? The Fredericton Peace Coalition lost any respect the public may have had the moment they attacked our soldiers in a blatant publicity stunt. I only keep reading, and writing on this fourm, to remind everyone exactly how little attention should be paid to the Fredericton Peace Coalition.

Comment from Jeff T
Time January 4, 2008 at 10:50 pm

Well, with critters like Alex, I would say it is stretching it to suggest they have any credibility at all… Nice to see drive by smears are still a favorite tactic of the “progressives” in this nation.

Comment from Nick
Time January 5, 2008 at 1:01 pm

jeff… the overwhelming majority of your posts have been smears. people in glasshouses…..!

erik… as much as you, jeff, and others like to dehumanize and belittle members of the fredericton peace coalition, we are human. and like many other people this time of year, we like to take a little break over the holidays as well.

dan c. … (going back a few posts).. i personally would take malalai joya at her word over a journalist that was recruited by and for the departement of national defence. i highly doubt they randomy bumped into her on the streets of kabul.

as for the yellow ribbon debate.. it is not just about the ribbons. it’s about supporting a war that is not going well, will not save the country. some of the kids may be in schools, but is the canadian government going to continue paying the wages of the teachers, walking the kids to school, convincing their parents to keep them in past grade 5 rather than putting them to work so they can make ends meet, after the “mission” is over? how much of the development will be centred around industry that benefits the rich more than the poor.

take a look at central america and canada’s industrial practices there. take a look at how canadian mining companies, the canadian international development agency, and the department of foreign affairs have focused their development projects more to benefit canadian industry and wealthy elite than the ‘peasant’ majority. hell you don’t even have to look at the whole region, guatemala will be sufficient. make sure you look up inco, goldcorp, and skye resources.

afghanistan may have been a “training ground for terrorists” but where were we when they were being trained? the taliban came into power over ten years ago and the human rights abuses started then.. did we stop them? no!
and nato did not stop the “terrorists.” if they did, there would be no excuse for canadian soldiers to be their now. they may have been pushed out of kabul, but the sure weren’t pushed out of the region.. they just retreated into balochistan and waziristan, reformed and came back with a vengence.. at a time when the afghanis were tired of being ‘accidentally’ killed and would rather side with them than the ‘americans’.

Comment from Jeff T
Time January 5, 2008 at 1:14 pm

More garbage from the FPC. Your campaign is all about dehumanizing me and my brothers in arms. Nothing in the Yellow Ribbon campaign says “support the war”, but then that doesn’t stop you from making stuff up now does it?

It would do much for your credibility Nick, if you stopped talking about stuff you clearly do not know/understand, go back, and actually research beyond the headlines, and get into a broader range of sources for research.

Oh, and if your idea of some is 6.2 million… 6.2 million children (1/3 female) registered and taking part in schooling FY 2007/2008 vs 700,000 (all boys) in 2001. How exactly does a country move forward without skilled labour? Does one wave a magical fairy wand, and suddenly there is electricity? Did you know one of the neccessary steps towards increasing acceptance of human rights in a country is education? How many things are linked to education? Hmmm, oh… I know. EVERYTHING.

Hmmm, I do not smear, that implies I go away. I have attacked inaccurate messages and out and out lies spread by your malicious little group. If you do not like it, the solutions are a) close the group or kick me (a win for freedom of speech no?); or b) actually research your subjects… Painful I know, as it would require a certain ammount of specialization, which from looking at your board you are unwilling to do.

Comment from Alex
Time January 5, 2008 at 4:44 pm

Worsening Situation

The corrupt government, huge amounts of aid misused by a particular section of people, and the presence of foreign forces have all together contributed to the doubling of the miseries of the common Afghan.

Prices of basic items have soared up and are still on the rise, ratio of unemployment is going higher and higher, and the real income level is going down. For example, during the Taliban era, one loaf of bread was sold for 3 Afghanis, now its price has doubled. One liter of petrol was sold for 11 Afghanis, now it is over 50 Afghanis. Similarly, one kilogram of liquefied gas was sold for 20 Afghanis, but now it is over 60 Afghanis. Prices have increased manifold, but the income of the common man has dropped.

Residents of Kabul enjoyed at least 12 hours electricity six years ago, but now it decreased to four hours. Kabul is perhaps the only capital in the world living in blackout. The roads of the heart of the capital have not been asphalted, but they have further damaged. This is the case in the capital, Kabul, which is often depicted as a success story of the post-Taliban Afghanistan. The situation is far worse in the countryside and the provinces.

Comment from Jeff T
Time January 5, 2008 at 4:49 pm

I would be very interested to see your sources Alex. I lived in Kandahar city proper for 6 months, and, that city is in much better condition then what you would describe. From what I know of Kabul, your description is no where near accurate.

Oh, and the source of power outages in Kandahar is none other then your friendly neighbourhood Taliban insurgent. They purposely shoot the power transformers going into the city Then they shoot at the workers who go out and fix them… Unfortunately, for the insurgents we go out with the workers.

Comment from Alex Corey
Time January 5, 2008 at 5:02 pm

To the war-loving posters and “brothers-in-arms” (quoting Jeff):

While the government and its military military make constant claims that conditions are improving for Afghani people, that is not what I am hearing from the people of Afghanistan, or any independent international organizations. Who do I believe?

One person asked what I would do if I were in control. I would not be so arrogant as to try to control Afghanistan as if I were wiser than its own people. I think the Canadian government should use democratic, non-murderous means to encourage socialized education, womens rights, the equitable distribution of resources, socialized health care around the world, but then again the Canadian government isn’t doing that for its own citizens right now. “Spreading democracy” with violent tactics that routinely causes civilian deaths, and including such strategies as air raids… you’re not going to convince anybody here that the Canadian military is doing something good. I’m not going to convince any of the people posting here, but I will echo Karzai in one last comment on this page (I think I’ve made this promise before, but got sucked back in):

Afghan lives are not cheap.

Add whatever comments you want; I’ll keep finding articles that disagree.

Ciao,
Alex

Comment from Jeff T
Time January 5, 2008 at 6:00 pm

Who claimed Afghan lives are cheap? Your arrogance is matched only by your blinding ignorance Alex.

“War loving” you arrogant slanderous little puke. WTF do you know about me.

“War loving”? What is there to love about it?

Maybe the 2 & 1/2 years cumulative I have spent away from my family? Nope, that sucked.

The missed birthdays?

Missed Christmases?

Ruined relationships?

Nightmares?

Sucked. Sucked. Sucked. And still sucks.

It is clear that a half wit ignorant like you has no idea what I am talking about, and choose your sources so that they only include information that supports your seriously flawed ideas as to what is going on in Afghanistan.

What are you hearing from who? My sources are Afghans in Kandahar City, and my personal experience there.

You think we are there to control Afghanistan? Are you really that deluded? Afghans have/do/will continue to control Afghanistan. If you have questions about what we are doing there, trying asking them, instead of making shit up to match your own fairy tale as to what is going on.

We are not “spreading democracy” with violent tactics, we are suppressing insurgents who are attacking aid workers, and burning down schools. The insurgents are not exactly rational human beings…

I know to a champagne silver spoon socialist such as yourself, you have difficulty grasping the idea of how evil the Taliban ideology is. Think of it like a very rabid fighting pit-bull. You can not reason with them… We have tried, and continue to try. But at the end of the day, the hard core extremists elements will not be talked into anything other then their extreme and perverted version of Islam (a version which is completely at odds with the versions of Sunni and Shia Islam which Afghans practice).

You would give the Afghan people back to butchers of the worse kind… The kind that get a 12 year old kid to cut the head off of a living fellow human being. The kind that would murder a 15 year old boy for having 15 USD in his pockets from market. The kind that created an infant mortality rate so abysmal that parents did not name their children until they reached the age of 5 (they did this by decreeing that women shall not see a male doctor under any circumstances, and further decreed that woman shall not work under any circumstance (no women doctors)).

You are a real humanitarian there Alex.

Oh, on the subject of the Yellow Ribbons… You will stop attacking your stupidity on that subject, if you allow me to say that the rainbow flag represents the support for the spread of HIV/AIDS… Well, I know that isn’t correct, and I do not even beleive in the statement, but it is EXACTLY THE SAME THING YOU ARE SAYING TO ME THROUGH YOUR OPPOSITION THE THE YELLOW RIBBONS.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time January 6, 2008 at 9:20 pm

Well said on your last statement Jeff T. A very good comparison regarding the ribbons. It is easy to see how various ribbons, and not just exclusively the two could be viewed as controversial by the foolish.

I also completely agree with you, as would my many friends who also have first hand non fictional experience in Afghanistan. The Taliban will indeed commit violence upon whoever they can to further their misguided cause. Fortunately for the helpless there are soldiers such as yourself and my friends protecting them as best they can. I hope to join them after my training when I am deemed fit to.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time January 6, 2008 at 9:45 pm

To Alex,
I realize that you would likely include myself among the “war loving” group that you have created in your mind.
Personally I don’t like war any more than anyone else who posts on this blog. I strongly suspect that Jeff and others on our side of the argument also do not like war. War is an unfortunate REALITY that people are forced to conted with. If you believe there would be no violence without us there, you are very deluded indeed.
If you ask me. The real peace activists are over there, putting their lives on the line to make it happen rather than simply spouting off useless verbal bile.
If I seem irritated, it might be because I feel I have been mis –
labeled. I won’t lower myself to your level however.

Comment from Nick
Time January 7, 2008 at 1:19 am

i understand the point you were trying to get at with your comment jeff, and this is not a rebuttal, but consider this.

yellow ribbon supports a group of individuals who have chosen a certain career path and are paid to do a job. (note that there is no ribbon for red cross and other aid workers, journalists, ngos, etc. all of whom face threats when working in war zones).

the rainbow flag supports a community of individuals that have no choice in their identity and face discrimination in even the most ‘liberal’ of areas.

also note there are two different rainbow flags. one supports and represents the gay community. the other supports and represents PEACE

Comment from Nick
Time January 7, 2008 at 1:41 am

jeff:

definition of some: being an unknown, undetermined, or unspecified unit or thing; being one, a part, or an unspecified number of something; being an unspecified amount or number; one indeterminate quantity, portion, or number as distinguished from the rest; an indefinite additional amount

“some of the kids may be in school…”

Comment from Jeff T
Time January 7, 2008 at 1:51 am

For someone in the service, there is no real choice. We spend all our lives serving, and (beleive it or not) helping others to the exclusion of ourselves. I have no more choice in going back to Afghanistan or the next war zone, then I do breathing (though, legally I could quit tomorrow with 30 days notice). This will continue until there is a mysterious outbreak of world peace, or the country I serve becomes something I can no longer serve, or I die.

The Yellow Ribbons, to myself, and many that I serve with act as an anchor, to remind us of what we are and who we are. This is important, because when you are in a lawless environment like war, that anchor keeps us from doing the things which would go against ours, and Canadian society’s as a whole morals and legal code… Meaning, we do not pick a pocket full of opium (even though I likely could get away with it)… We check and re-check before shooting or calling fire support (despite the fact that the hesitation could cost our lives)… We police ourselves and others around us to prevent looting, rape and other warzone “norms”.

The Yellow Ribbon is as much a supporting banner to remind us of who we are, as the Rainbow Flag is the gay community. Do not beleive for an instant that these silly little ribbons are not important to us, especially in the darkness we face.

Comment from Nick
Time January 7, 2008 at 2:27 am

jeff.. with regards to “attacks on you” on here… the main thing i’ve ever asked of you is to actually debate and post back up to your comments (whether i agree with it or not). you weren’t doing that before, you’re doing it now (at least in response to my posts), so thank you for that.

—-

if you go back through my posts on the issue of the yellow ribbons (specifically), i have always said that i don’t feel that every individual who puts one up is a war-monger. what i have repeatedly expressed is that i feel that DND uses support for the troops and the “support the troops campaign” to drum up support for the war and to create an environment where you don’t question the mission or any action taken in it.

Comment from Dan
Time January 11, 2008 at 12:44 pm

Our enemy is not Islam, which created one of the world’s great civilizations, nor is it the Arab or Iranian or Afghani peoples. Our enemy is the nihilism of this subculture.

The terrorist leaders claim to speak for Palestinians. But the grievances of that people, even if legitimate, cannot explain the motivation for this act, much less justify it. The terrorists claim to speak for the victims of Western imperialism. But any literal imperialism is a thing of the past, long since redressed by the wealth that Europe and America have showered on these countries. It is clearly not the military or political power but the cultural power of the West that they resent.

What makes them denounce the west as the great Satan is nothing as superficial as Coca-Cola or blue jeans. It is our secular culture of freedom, reason, and the pursuit of happiness. They hate our individualism; what they want is an authoritarian society where thought and behavior are controlled by true believers. They hate capitalism as a system of trade, production, innovation, and progress; what they want is a return to a primitive mode of existence from which these “materialist” aspirations have been banished. They hate the political system of individual rights, the rule of law, and secular government; what they want is a tribal society ruled by command.

The nihilist subculture is a worldwide phenomenon. We see it in the Japanese Aum Shinrikyo sect that released poison gas in the Tokyo subways. We see it in the hate-filled eyes of Christian killers in Northern Ireland. We see it in the eco-terrorists who spike trees and blow up electrical transmission towers. We see it in less murderous forms in the anti-globalization protesters who want to stifle international trade. We see it in the theorists of primitivism from Jean-Jacques Rousseau to the Unabomber.

Civilization has always attracted parasites who wanted to steal wealth from those who produce it. But this phenomenon is different. The nihilists do not seek wealth for themselves. They want to destroy the wealth of others. They do not seek freedom from domination. They want to abolish freedom. They do not seek a place at the table of world commerce. They want to smash the table. They do not seek a better life. They glory in death. They represent the worst form of envy, the most vicious form of human evil. They hate us not for our sins but for our virtues, and they will not be appeased.

That is why this whole arguement here is void because you just do not understand, nor will you ever.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time January 23, 2008 at 11:37 am

Is the blog done, or just no recent posts?
Been awhile… just curious.

Comment from Dave
Time January 25, 2008 at 7:28 am

Maybe the Fredericton Peace Coalition has realized their 15 minutes are up…

Comment from Dan
Time January 25, 2008 at 1:48 pm

The Manley Report made FPC obselete and about the same time as it made the Dion and the LPC redundant!

Comment from CMJ
Time January 25, 2008 at 2:04 pm

He’s five foot-two, and he’s six feet-four,
He fights with missiles and with spears.
He’s all of thirty-one, and he’s only seventeen,
Been a soldier for a thousand years.

He’a a Catholic, a Hindu, an Atheist, a Jain,
A Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew.
And he knows he shouldn’t kill,
And he knows he always will,
Kill you for me my friend and me for you.

And he’s fighting for Canada,
He’s fighting for France,
He’s fighting for the USA,
And he’s fighting for the Russians,
And he’s fighting for Japan,
And he thinks we’ll put an end to war this way.

And he’s fighting for Democracy,
He’s fighting for the Reds,
He says it’s for the peace of all.
He’s the one who must decide,
Who’s to live and who’s to die,
And he never sees the writing on the wall.

But without him,
How would Hitler have condemned him at Labau?
Without him Caesar would have stood alone,
He’s the one who gives his body
As a weapon of the war,
And without him all this killing can’t go on.

He’s the Universal Soldier and he really is to blame,
His orders come from far away no more,
They come from here and there and you and me,
And brothers can’t you see,
This is not the way we put the end to war.

Comment from CMJ
Time January 25, 2008 at 2:10 pm

It is time soldiers realise that they are a pawn in the game. It is time they realise that war cannot exist without them. It is time they realise they are being used. It is time they realise that they are being abused. It is time to put and end to war and it is the soldier, in every country, who must take up this responsibility. It does no matter if you are a Canadian soldier or a Holy Solider; the solider is only a pawn in their game.

Comment from Dave
Time January 25, 2008 at 2:41 pm

CMJ,
Nothing lilke suggesting some real world solutions, eh? Believe me, I’m not being used and abused…

Comment from Dave
Time January 25, 2008 at 2:42 pm

CMJ,
Nothing like suggesting some real world solutions, eh? Believe me, I’m not being used and abused…

Comment from Jeff T
Time January 25, 2008 at 5:58 pm

CMJ how about proposing answers? I know for a fact, that without me in uniform, armed with a rifle in Bosnia in the mid ninties, there are several Bosniacs who would not be breathing today… Without NATO intervention by force, the Muslims of the former Yugoslavia would have been wiped out.

Convince the other guy first, and then I will put my rifle down. Or grow up.

Comment from Erik
Time January 27, 2008 at 9:41 am

CMJ

Canadian soldiers are all volunteers. Well compensated, well educated and highly trained. I don’ t think any of us consider ourselves pawns.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time January 27, 2008 at 6:51 pm

CMJ…. nice poem, and you have some nice ideals.
It is unfortunate that words are not enough in some cases to stop the bad guys…. and YES there are bad guys.
If words were enough, you and I would not need soldiers to bleed for us. Civillians in places around the world would not need soldiers to bleed for us.
Yet another reason to respect the soldier.
They protect the sheep from the wolves… and yes you are a sheep just like me and other civillians. Not an insult, just a fact.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time January 28, 2008 at 4:05 pm

Correction to a mistake in my last post…
I meant “civilians in other parts of the world would not need soldiers to bleed for them”.

Comment from Dave
Time January 30, 2008 at 2:57 pm

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays_paper/story.html?id=272528

I wonder why the FPC wouldn’t bother to post this headline. Doesn’t sound very peaceful to me. Perhaps they endorse it…?
How come this doesn’t grab your guys attention, FPC? I await your response…

Comment from Nathan
Time January 30, 2008 at 7:57 pm

Dave, do you truly think the Fredericton PEACE Coaltion endorses the rantings (often racist) of a very angry man? Come on. Do you really think that his rantings are news-worthy? Did he hold any position of power to influence others to commit the heinous actions he wrote about or did he show any intent of commiting said actions himself? I think it is far more pertinent to post articles by people who hold power and influence and strategize heinous violence as part of state policy with every intent of following through with the planned atrocity in the future. I am speaking vaguely and generally, but the ariticle just posted about NATO reserving the right to use pre-emptive nuclear strikes is what I’m thinking of in particular. A angry man in his home on a desktop is one thing. A group of angry men planning the use of nuclear weapons– now there is something the public should be very worried about.

Comment from Dave
Time January 30, 2008 at 8:07 pm

I didn’t say you endorsed it. However, as a group emgracing all things “peaceful”, maybe it would do more for your cause to actually come out and condemn this guys actions. If the roles were reversed and it was a Canadian soldier posting rantings about killing innocent Muslims I’ll bet you a million dollars that there would be a headline on your website (and rightfully so) along with comments.
Free speech begins with responsible speech.

Comment from Dave
Time January 30, 2008 at 8:39 pm

Further to my last there Nathan: Au contraire, here’s some food for thought if we’re going to talk about what worries me. I believe the last nuclear wpn strike was in Hiroshima. When did the last suicide bombing or IED strike occur? So yeah, an angry man on his desktop worries me and should worry you as well.

Comment from Nathan
Time January 31, 2008 at 11:52 pm

When did the last suicide bombing in Canada happen? Don’t you have better things to do at DND than post on our website?

Comment from Jeff T
Time February 1, 2008 at 1:58 am

Nathan, the whole point of the mission in Afghanistan, is find some way to stop suicide bombings from happening ANYWHERE. But if they must happen, over there, is a damn sight better then here.

So, I guess you half wits at FPC are still running your highly insulting anti-yellow ribbon campaign. Piss into the when, you will get wet. Venting your ignorant spleen on the internet, you will have to accept that people are going to take exception to your ignorant take on things.

Comment from Jeff T
Time February 18, 2008 at 4:02 pm

I couldn’t help but notice, the deafening silence on the murder of 130+ civilians in Afghanistan over the past two days.

I suppose it is understandable though, as the murders were commited by the Taliban.

Comment from Dave
Time February 18, 2008 at 4:26 pm

You took the words right out of my mouth Jeff. However, I didn’t bother because the FPC normally just deletes my posts. Guess they don’t like that I have an opposing point of view…

Comment from Jeff T
Time February 18, 2008 at 4:38 pm

Aye, it’s not just FPC though… The silence is universal when it comes to ALL of the left wing political boards. We as Canadians accidently kill one civilian, and it is news for months… The Taliban kill 130, and it is not worth mentioning.

Some folks wonder why I call lefties hypocrites.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time February 22, 2008 at 1:37 am

Hey Jeff. I think you may have something there.
But I am not surprised by the actions of the Taliban as they are by no stretch of the imagination a noble group.
They are going to attempt to intimidate the general public into non compliance with western forces through blatant acts of murder. This is quite similar to tactics used by warlords and the mafia bosses of the early 1900′s in America. I think they know they are on borrowed time.

I think the reason that those who do not support our mission would use for saying nothing is that although they don’t support the Taliban, they still feel 1 dead civilian at our hands is worse. Just taking a guess here, although I don’t see it the same way they do. Some people can recognize the bad guys, but are just not willing to support the idea of forcibly stopping them from their actions when it must be done.

hippie-crytes? No offense, but it is kind of a scary similarity.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time February 22, 2008 at 1:41 am

The only real weapon the Taliban have is fear, and they are using that weapon the best way they can. Unfortunately, innocent civilians are paying the price for the Taliban’s cowardly inability to deal with us head on.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time February 29, 2008 at 8:59 pm

Just wanted to give my best to all of you guys or gals over in Afghanistan right now. We are thinking of you all. I will be starting my basic training soon myself and then my cap, officer courses, etc… Best wishes.

Comment from Julian Christie
Time April 14, 2008 at 12:40 pm

Hey Dan!
I did not know you guys were putting together a ribbon campaign. How can I get involved?
email me at (paintballgawd@hotmail.com)
I really would like to help if I can!
Thanks.

Write a comment





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